Abortion; Legal if women want it = Illegal if men want it.

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Jail for man who slipped abortion drugs into wife’s sandwiches in bid to kill his unborn baby

Found via AntiMisandry.

In summary, the woman was 11 weeks pregnant. He didn’t want it, he tried to get it aborted with pills he was feeding her. She did want it.

A husband hid abortion pills in a sandwich and gave it to his wife in a desperate bid to kill their unborn child, a court heard yesterday.

Yesterday, the businessman was jailed for three years and nine months at the Old Bailey after admitting the rare offence of administering a poison with intent to cause miscarriage.

Isn’t that what happens when women willingly take pills to induce a chemical abortion?

“He tried to terminate our baby, end his child’s life before it had even begun and that’s the cruellest thing imaginable.

Yesterday, the businessman was jailed for three years and nine months at the Old Bailey after admitting the rare offence of administering a poison with intent to cause miscarriage.

I’m not a fan of abortion myself, so her having a baby is obviously good.But my opinion is irrelevant. The question I have regards the application of the law.

He was jailed for poisoning with the intent to cause miscarriage. Now, if the roles were reversed and he did want the baby, and she didn’t, as we all know not only is it legal, she could get the taxpayer to pay for it.

Now the usual justification is that ‘it’s the woman’s body, it’s her Right To Choose and only hers.’ That would mean the man has no say and no rights to the child (this means the responsibility of the child rests totally with the woman). This is saying that women are the gatekeepers to family.

But that man contributed half of the child’s DNA, right? Not only that, but if she does decide she wants it, he is then liable to help bring the child up, or pay substantial amounts of money to the woman. So now he was responsibilities to the child. Whether he wanted to or not. He has no choice.

Remember, this isn’t about individuals, this is about the law. The law essentially states that women have the Right To Choose, whereas men only have the Right To Pay.

I’m open to hearing any other justifications for this strange interpretation of ‘equality’.

Feminism: The State Ideology whereby women have rights, men have responsibilities, and children have their lives ruined – Peter Zohrab

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48 thoughts on “Abortion; Legal if women want it = Illegal if men want it.

  1. Hi my name is Erika. I am doing research on abortion for a class to complete my undergraduate degree. I am studying the emotional effects if any of Abortion for Men and Women. If you have had a past abortion please take this survey. I need MALES and FEMALES. If you would like the results of this study, or have any questions please feel free to e-mail me at coloner@kean.edu. I truly thank you for your time. This will be very helpful to me. Just copy and past the link below into your URL. Thanks!
    http://ku.qualtrics.com/SE?SID=SV_73OU0hpj9KsO0iE&SVID=Prod

  2. Why bring more children into a world dominated by government and industry who need more victims to rob?

    If banks can rob consumers, women can rob population incubator machines by having abortions. Isn’t that called fair trade?

  3. I am a non-english person, if there was any english spelling mistakes etc, Please forgive me.

    My partner has a daughter with his ex- girlfriend. I know both of them before I’m with my partner. She’s with my partner about 2 mths, and she pregnant after the 1st 2 weeks they had been together. He was shocking, because she told him that she was in the pill (which she not surposed to be that easily pregnant). He dosen’t want that child, but she dose. I was wondered, if she dose want child, why she was in the pill? He loved her, BUT she said that’s her body, and law protects all the pregnant ladies. He couldn’t do much, coz he loved her. He told me. What he could do just take care of her and the baby in the tummy…. A month later, she broke up with him, she said she had enough of him, she told her friend that she just cheated him to pregnant, and she hated works, she rather got single mum benefit…..
    That’s rediculors I think.
    He cried, he has to pay for it untill the child turns to 19. And I think he just has to carry the shame that he’s been cheated for his whole life.
    He’s a nice guy, he accepts everything happened to him, of course he has to. Things I have been with him, as I know the child mum is never nice to me or us. She wrote lots mean things on my blog, she told everyone she’s unwish to our marriage, she called me slipt eyes…. Even befor I visited her doughter and bought oversea gift for her. The way she keeps lying lots thing I think is really childish. Yah, it’s right, she’s only 18 and she’s the mom of 1 yr old baby.
    Why should she got the right to have the baby, even she’s hardly been educated well? I cannot say anything to her, coz I dont want to make my partner feel bad in between.
    I said to him, i think it is enough to pay her childcare everyweek. You donnot have to do anything further, coz the more you do, the more she wants. A part from that everyweek single mum benefits and our childcare payment, she really oftenly ask us for money. The last time i was really angry is she asked him $400 for their daughter’s 1 yr old birthday without inviting any of my partner’s family members, Of couse she wouldn’t invite me, She told everyone she dosen’t want to see me, she dosen’t want to me touch her baby at all…
    I feel she has making too much dramas so far, I only want to get over it. My partner and I we love each other, we have planned when we would like to have a baby and give our babies a nice family, etc.
    I told to my partner, “If a woman makes the decision to proceed with a pregnancy against the father’s wishes then she should be ready to bear full responsibility of her decision”, I agree, especially she cheated him to have that child, coz she wants benefits, she hates working.
    He kind feels bad if he’s not go to see her I think. He said he never experience this ,he dosent know what to do, he thinks he’s a father he should take more responsiblities than paying childcare…
    But, look ,how she treated us so far? She cheated to have baby, coz she wants benefits; she keeps saying “it’s your baby too” when she keeps asking us for more and more money. As actually she’s got more money from govement benefit than my partner earns every week.
    My friends always tell me they saw her in the night club, smoking some like that. So what is the point to let the person like her get rights to be a mum? what is the point to let the person like her get rights to involve into our life? what is the point to let the person like her to get single mum benefits? What is the point to let her speech out how bad my partner is as a father to give a daughter a birth, because everyone normally thinks there’s more rights as a single more than a guy who has to pay childcare to her?
    People if saying how much we should care about that child, then they should know all the stories as well.
    Is it really worth for us to forgive her time and time again, to let my partner do more responsiblities to the baby as SOCIALTY thoughts and also she asks too? I feel she’s the stranger to me and to my life, but she always can be the one who feels get right to involve my partner’s and my life. And whatever she dose, we couldn’t do anything, coz once we did a little bit or even just say no, EVERYONE thinks we mean, coz noone knows the details. It just make our life gose stressed and unhappy.
    ….I think I said too much. I don’t even know if you could understand what i’m talking about. I’m happy anyone could email me and talk to me and my partner about our situations, help us.
    Many thanks
    Regards Elva
    edpicture@hotmail.com
    New Zealand

  4. Congratulations to Ebabydoll for thininkg logically about abortion. Would that there were more women like her. However, I do have a question. What was she doing joining the Army? Another place where women do not belong.

  5. A man cannot get inside that body and rip that fetus out, beat it to death, poison it. Legally a woman may opt for a medically performed procedure called an abortion to terminate the pregnancy.

    Interesting that when a man kills a baby, he is described using emotional, violent language, when a woman kills a baby, it is “performed procedure called an abortion, to terminate the pregnancy”. All nice and clinical.

    It’s still the same murder though, isn’t it? Still the same method, same result, same pills even!

    Yet he’s a monster. And that would make the women doing the same thing…. ?

    Interesting article.

  6. Ebabydoll, You are one of the lucky ones who got pregnant and the father was happy about it. I sure wish that happened to me but nope. I think that many women who have abortions would have changed their mind if the fathers wanted the child. I don’t think you are in a fair position to judge. Everything is just hunky dory for you. Rub it in why don’t you.

    The majority of the men who complain about no right to choose are the ones who want abortions to avoid financial obligation. These arguments can be senseless because there will never be a successful politician that will share the view of these losers. Too many people on both sides are set against the dead beat dad wannabes.

    To all the women who think that is simply not right to force a man to pay. Should you ever find yourself with a child and the father skips out, do us all a favor, don’t cry your eyes out to your co workers and friends because you can’t afford that $900 a month day care expense. It gets old real fast.

  7. I am not a feminist, I am giving my opinion as you all have. After reading all of the opinions, situations, and solutions above, I can’t help but feel that most are incredibly biased. Where one would state a given opinion backing it up with a situation or a scenario, they would not dare to mention the situations and scenarios that were disproving to their theories and opinions, but equally true. For example, where there are many men who want to be fathers, there are the men who abandon a woman after she bears a child believing that she will have his support. There are also women who abuse abortion, while there are women who are honestly pregnant rape victims, and there are women just like my sister who religiously and responsibly took birth controll pills for 2 years and fell into the 0.1% that get pregnant. There are also women who don’t care whether the father is involved or not and continue to have children to collect from the taxpayer, and there are women who cry wolf about rape. There are two sides to every story, and there should be two sides to every pregnancy. I too agree that men should have a right in the say so of a child he helped to create…. 50% mom.. 50% dad. If a woman consensually has unprotected sex with a man then BOTH people are equally aware of the risk involved and therefore should have an equal say in the outcome. This is where most women would argue, “but it’s MY body”. YES, it is YOUR body but the minute you KNOWINGLY subject yourself to the risks of unprotected sex, then you knowingly forfeit the right to having entire control (you know that you may or may not become pregnant). And I agree with the idea that while the fetus rests inside of the mother, it is not entirely part of her body. No matter what arguement you may have against that, ultimately science will tell you that all of the DNA in that child is not entirely yours…. therefore how can you say that it is entirely your body? The baby growing inside my own belly is only one half of me. And I also recall the debates on whose resposibility that contraception should lie on… that’s absolutely rediculous. It has been proven that NO contraceptive is 100% except for absitence. So ultimately, men when you slip on that condom, or women when you slap on that patch or take that pill, in the back of your mind you know there is still a risk. While the risk may be significantly less, it still exsists (just as it exsisted for my sister. She was very resposible about taking her pills but it still did not prevent a pregnancy). And whoever tried to put the responsibility of contraception on one sex alone does not make any sense to me. How can the entire blame of pregnancy be put on a man OR a woman when it takes BOTH to do it. When having sexual intercourse, it should be a JOINT decision on the contraceptive used. And of course it could be one’s own decision as well. But to say “oh it should be the woman since the baby sits inside her,” or, “it should be the man because the pill doesnt protect against std’s like condoms do” or whatever other illegitimate excuse people want to use to pin the blame of pregnancy is beyond my comprehension. But going back to the rights that men should have. I believe that it IS unfair that a man has no say so in whether or not a woman keeps or discards a fetus when it does not entirely belong to her. If a man tells you he does not want to have a child, then he should not have to pay for it when the woman decides she wants to keep it because she made that decision ALONE. She should then suffer the responsibility ALONE. Well you’ve read my opinion on the rights of men (coming from a female perspective). If you’d like to hear how this came to be, because I didn’t always feel so strongly about the subject, MY story is below:

    Back in November ’07 I wanted to join the U.S. Army because I couldn’t afford college and my parents already blew the college fund on my sister, not to mention I dropped out of HS so my parents didn’t really have a whole lot of faith in me. I don’t really blame them. At any rate, I got my GED and began working full time to try and save up enough to start tech school or even to build up enough of a credit history so that I could apply for student loands. When that seemed to be taking forever, I decided that the U.S. Army would be a great solution to my money and school problem. When I met my recruiter, we ultimately ended up becoming romantically involved, and since I knew I would be leaving soon, I wanted to keep the relationship short and sweet. I ended up leaving for Basic Combat Training in early January of this year. While in Basic I maintained my relationship with my recruiter through daily letters and our fairy tale love didn’t fade at all. If anything, the distance made it empowered. Before I left we took the relationship rather lightly. It was full of fun and we agreed there would be no commitment due to the circumstances, and after all I felt very light hearted that a short 2 month relationship would easily be placed in my book of good memories. It didn’t really work out that way with all the love letters and time spent thinking of one another. But happy times in basic training ended 1 week prior to graduation when I was injured on the last obstacle course of training. I fell almost 15 feet and shattered my ankle into pieces. After a surgery, 2 pins, and many stitches later, I was medically discharged. I was very upset but with the discarge I was given, I could return to the army in 1 year given that I had the approval of a doctor. I decided I would work another bs job until I could return to the Army to obtain my schooling benefits. Upon returning home, I was back with my lover and everything seemed just fine until two months later I found out I was pregnant and it devastated me. At the time, I always viewed what other women did with abortion as their business.. whether the woman was a slut, or a rape victim, or a fluke of birthcontrol like my sister, it didn’t matter… pregnancy was never MY problem.. until now. I was raised in a household with both parents and always believed that it was not entirely fair for a child to never experience the benefit of having both parents. Without my father, in my troubled teen life, I would be dead. He found me after a suicide attempt at 12 years old and saved my life. If he wasn’t there I would not be here. I could never relate to my friends who lacked a father figure in their life and I actually took pride in knowing I would never have to, but in remembering the times my friends were grieved I realized I could not do that to my own child, and nor could I force marriage or responsibility on a man who for better or worse did not want the child. Not to mention he was currently going through a divorce and some very unstable time. Ultimately, I came to the conclusion on my own that abortion would be the best for everyone, but that quickly changed the moment I revealed this news to him…. He could not have been more overjoyed. He wanted to keep the child and start a family with me. This was not the reaction I had anticipated. He made it very evident that this decision was not mine solely to make, and he had every right to feel that way as he contributed to it. So we sat down and talked a long time. I confessed my concerns that we were not married and my family would disapprove. I told him I was worried he would leave. After all, my best friend just had a baby a little over a year ago and that child’s father fled the moment he found out. But overwhelming my own concerns for me, I could not escape the feelings of motherhood already sweeping over me. My biggest concerns were that of this unborn child. I don’t want my child to have the grief and agony in its heart of growing up without a father. I confronted him about the possibility that things didn’t work out between him and I. Would he still be there for the baby? I was not meaning in the form of a check every month but to actually visit, or share custody with me and be a FATHER. When confronted with this question, to my surprise he said NO. He wanted to share this joy as a family, not of one broken up but in my own mind you couldn’t truly control the outcome of such a young relationship (in terms of time). We decided together that if I were to keep this child, we would make it work and so we have. There are many times (probably due to my hormonal imbalance) when I feel helpless and angry and worried and the stress has impacted our relationship in a rather negative fashion, but we’re still together and we’re trying very hard to make it work out. As time went by, the more I considered abortion, the more I realized I couldn’t do it… I knew the risks, as we all do each time we have sex, but I will not punish a life that only did as nature intended. And when I look back to the time we created this life, it was a time of love and bliss. I also think what if my mother decided that it was in the best interest of everyone if she had an abortion with me… or my sister.. or my brother. Of course there is always the debate on when does life really begin? Some say that an embryo and a fetus are just cells.. but then aren’t we all just cells? In my opinion, a life is something that lives… and exists. This fetus may not have thoughts yet, or a fully formed skeletal system. But it has little fingers… and little black dots for eyes… and a heart beat… my blood and the blood of the man I love flows through its tiny undeveloped body, and with that it lives in me. It exsists in me. If I had never told this man about my pregnancy, I think I might have gone ahead with the abortion, but he has a right to be a father if he wants to be. And this child has a right to live. I can not even begin to describe how sick I have been. My nausea and vomiting are very severe. I am so fatigued it’s tough to sit here and even write this but I guess I wanted people to know my opinion. But I knew that this might be possible each and every time I had sex, protected or not, and I WILL take the responsibility WITH my partner.

    The conclusion to my story; ultimately my viewpoint on the rights of men changed once I was in the very situation I once cared so little about. The man I love is not controlling, nor is he abusive. He is just a guy that was given the RIGHT to be a part of the decision concerning pregnancy, and it turned out better than most family related statistics in America.

  8. A man can’t legally have a say in an abortion because a paternity test is done AFTER the child is born. There is no question who the mother is but anyone could claim to be the father.

    It amazes me how many men seem to think an abortion is as simple as taking a dump. You totally toss aside the physical, emotional and moral issue of it for many of us. An unwanted pregnancy to you was simply a mistake and if the woman doesn’t agree to go through hell to clean up after you then you think you should be absolved of any responsibility for it. It’s never going to happen.

    Men have the easiest and best birth control available. All you have to do is use condoms and no pregnancy, no STDs. I am not understanding why they are not being used. How can you not use a condom and then put all the blame on the women if she gets pregnant and refuse responsibility? A woman’s bc options can be complicated and doesn’t protect against STDs. The pills available have all messed with my hormones and caused unbearable side effect such as consistent nausea. I am still looking for the correct dose.

    Do you think that as the word gets out more and more, that a man doesn’t legally have a leg to stand on, he will start to be more responsible in his role? It could be a great ad campaign for condoms. “Don’t get screwed. Use condoms!”

  9. FMWATKINS is right; DUMBBLONDE is precisely that. Women want to deny the male any share in the reproductive decision, but stick him with the bill because the shared in the creation. That is having the argument both ways-a little fact which DUMBBLONDE cannot seem to comprehend. If women really believed that the “welfare of the child” came first, they would not be killing the unborn child in the first place. A sex which kills unborn babies should have nothing to say about the welfare of any child coming first. A fetus is not part of any woman’s body. If it were, it would not take two human beings to create. Every woman is born with kidneys and a heart. No woman was ever born with a fetus inside of her.

    It is clear that women do not want to think logically about abortion. They basically want the right to kill off babies they do not want while handing men the bill for the babies they decided to keep. It is also clear tht women who murder their own child would not welcome the opportunity to put their money where their mouth is. Paying your husband cld support each month would not be nearly as convenient as bumping off another one.

    Women say that men are violent. The non-violence principle only applies to killing your fellow man; killing your own baby is much different. Child abuse is supposedly a terrible thing; killing an unborn life is clearly distinguishable. Deadbeat fathers are not deadbeat mothers; a sex which cannot see the contradiction between putting the welfare of the child first and allowng the butchery of an unborn child is a sex which cannot think logically about anything. Finally, for DUMBBLONDE and all other feminists who think that they should have custody of the kid because they changed the diapers, I note that women in the military do not do the fighting and dying; that women did not spill their blood at Valley Forge and Yorktown building a new country. Do all rights have to be earned-or is the principle selectively employed like all other “female logic”?

  10. well, from what i am reading women make it a point to say that its their fetus, theirbody . its their fetus and they have the choice, if its their fetus it would then be their baby, CAN NOT HAVE A BABY WITH OUT A FETUS. therefor shouldn’t the father only have a responsability of about$400 to cover the cost of the abortion he wanted. now i think if two people know there having a child, the father should have a choice. my gf and i were excited about this or so i thought, one big fight over nothing(hormones), she moves out and aborts in less than a week. i was still ready, we were telling people, already bought diaper bags and what not. any thoughts on this? “I” was ready to have a baby. she changed her mind. something need to change, this is not a fair!

  11. to see the way things Should be legally, please read the following link:

    (when a man want to abort and the woman wants to keep it)

    http://www.cs.unm.edu/~kwiley/mindRamblings/abortion.html

    ps, if you’re anti-choice (ie, ‘prolife’), don’t bother trying to respond to my comment and this link b/c you won’t be able to maintain any objectivity. this is for women who are prochoice and who are openminded, but haven’t put themselves in the position of the man in this situation.. from them, i’d appreciate intelligent feedback.

  12. He should, but considering that she is the one who will get pregnant, you would assume the responsbility is more hers.

    Although any man who knows the truth about the misandric law system and the attitudes of most females wouldn’t even bother going anywhere near any woman unless he trusts her completely.

    Frikkin vipers.

  13. Men should have options too.
    ——-
    I’m having a head-desk moment here. Nitti, you DID have options: condoms, vasectomy, abstinance, find a more reliable woman. You CHOSE not to exercise them and now you’re sitting here whining about the consequences? No sympathy from this corner. Not even an ounce.

  14. And honestly this is getting ridculus, women have it harder in this world lets not act like they dont.

    Do they… Care to elaborate? Of course not. And falling back on other feminist myths doesn’t count.

  15. Um, no offesnse diskson but my gramps had kidney stones and alothough he cried everyday, it dosent last to long to pass one, and beisdes that there usually from un-healthy diet or infection. You cant really compare having something grow inside you that actully caries weight (averge of 10 ounces) to one very painfl experience that at most lasts a month an you can just drug yourself hoever a responsible woman wont take drugs up untill giving birth.

    And honestly this is getting ridculus, women have it harder in this world lets not act like they dont.

  16. “Men should have options too.”

    Netti,

    I think you hit the nail right on the head with this. Fortunately, we may see men exercise their right in the future. It saddens me that children will suffer the most…but it was women who started the whole “choice” fiasco. It’s only fair that men have theirs as well.

  17. I in no way condone the actions of the man trying to slip the woman pills to induce a miscarriage, as I don’t think any man here does. But I think this story highlights a very serious issue. An issue that I think is grossly unfair to men.

    Here’s my personal story.

    I’ve known a beautiful young woman for many, many years I knew she had issues but never really knew the extent. I’ve always known that she’s been in and out of depression and had attempted suicide several times in the past.

    Last year while visiting her sister. to my surprise she was there living with her. I started talking to her. I really felt sorry for her. She was in a terrible situation, out-of-work, forced to live with her sister and her four children in a one bedroom apartment. I really felt for her and started to help her by sending her links to jobs and just providing moral support, which I felt she was in dire need of. We went out a few times and she actually seemed happier. Suddenly her sister, with any provocation, asked her to leave the house. I live alone in a two bedroom apartment and offered to allow her to stay in my place. She moved in, our relationship developed and we became romantically involved.

    Her issues and depression are the result of Bipolar Disorder. She increasingly became more and more hostile and her “demons” kept coming up more and more frequently. She would explode and flip out then when her “moods” passed she felt incredible guilt and regret for her actions. I would forgive her and vowed to help her get the necessary help she needed. I really, really wanted to help her and by this time I was in love with her “good” side. Unfortunately, as time passed I saw less and less of her “good” side.

    Before we got together she was using the patch and I kept pleading with her to once again get on the patch. I offered to pay for it or any other type of contraception she chose. She kept saying she was going to make an appointment but never did. Neither of use liked the idea of condoms and being that we were in a relationship I think we were past the condom phase. We needed real contraception. We spoke about the possibility of her getting pregnant. She assured me she would get an abortion.

    She finally gets pregnant and tells me its “her baby” and will definitely not get an abortion. I pleaded with her as she is not mentally fit to be a mother at this time. She got angry and refused and just kept telling me its “her baby”.

    At this time I’m totally, totally devastated. I don’t take children lightly and I have no doubt that I will have to raise this child on my own if its ever going to have any chance at life. She doesn’t keep her ob-gyn appointments, goes days without eating, and forgets to take her prenatal pills. A few weeks ago she had vaginal bleeding and was having contractions, she was 32 weeks pregnant then, she tested positive for preterm labor and she needed to go back for further testing and treatment but hasn’t gone back. For all she knows the baby is dying, she doesn’t care. She keeps saying she wants to kill her herself and has even gone to the hospital emergency room but after three hours they sent her back home. Last weekend she was angry and started punching her belly. She’s abusing “her baby” before he or she is even born.

    I don’t know what’s going to happen but my story will not have a happy ending. I’m going through a lot of pain and turmoil over her decision. I don’t believe in abortions but I knew from the beginning that she is not stable enough to be a mother.

    “Her Baby” and I will pay for her decision for the rest our lives.

    My issue here is that I had no part in the decision and I think it’s unfair. This is a complex problem and I don’t think there’s any easy solutions.

    I believe men should have some legal recourse in situations like these. I personally would probably not exercise this right but I think there should be some legal document or contract where men can make their position clear. If a woman makes the decision to proceed with a pregnancy against the father’s wishes then she should be ready to bear full responsibility of her decision.

    I know many woman are going to say “you should have taken precautions”. But let me remind you that men don’t really have contraceptive alternatives. It’s condom or nothing. If I would’ve had the option of taking a pill or a getting a patch I would not be writing this message right now but much like I had no decision in having this child, I had practically no decision in preventing it, aside from buying a condom factory.

    Unfortunately, many women have kids to tie men down and inevitably this doesn’t work and its the kids who suffer.

    Men should have options too.

    • Nitti, check this out. You took on the role of savior with this girl. You knew what you were getting into. Yet, you abused her more than she has already been abused. You thought you were going to protect her and help her, your totally failed, and now you’ve ruined her. You are a failure.

  18. Just a small side note, I think any guy who has passed a stone can speak on the “pain of birth.” Women expand….uh, we don’t. 🙂

  19. sorry i was jsut ranting but i stand by what i said and also i do agree, there should be more info of birth control at school, but parents need to teach kids some values so they dont just go “fuck” they wait and make love

  20. Wow its like everyone heres forgot that there is protection of both men and women hello there are birth pills, female condoms probally alot more but im a guy so i dont kno about all of them
    and as for a legal stand point i think it should be legal just because it is the womens choice fellas you BOTH werent wearing protection but shes the one who gets an average dialation of like 3-4cm during which is a painful kinda gross experience not only that she carries that thing for 9months and im older than my sis by 8 years i was 8 when my mom was pregnant she was a single mother which is why “fmwatkins” really pissed me off but ill get to that in a second, i remeber her throwing up every two seconds laying in bed really sick, with no dad because he left
    now i was pissed because my mother worked 13 hours a day so dont you dare ever say again that women dont work as hard if you were infront of me things might get violent saying something that dumb and ignorant
    and people like to think that since its the 2000’s we shouldnt have to be careful about sex, and just get an abportion if anything goes wrong but that child is more than just some “consequence” of your actions wether or not you believe i god or heaven thats a little angle and if you dont like taht word then its a..its a YOU, what if when you were born i jsut came an said “naw im not ready for this” an just ender your life before it even began the fact is we dont have the right as humans we want to but we dont people need to start going back to the old school rules, you dont go to a club and get laid, you date for a while decide you rally like eachother enough and then you do it
    and no im not some really old school guy either im 24 not religious either just have real vaules that some schovanistic men like the above have forgotten, your a man, shes a woman your a protector care for the woman you love and if a child comes out of that love, whether or not YOUR ready for it, or ever her, embrace this new piece of life created by love and stop thinking of dollor signs, i wasnt planed and i bet most of you werent either but im willing to also bet that you parents would never re-wind time and jsut delete you now that yo full grown and makin them proud even when you fail, remeber we were humans before there was gonvorment and think before you talk you schovanistic men

  21. I’m anti-abortion, but I’m also pro-choice. If that sounds like straddling the fence, well I guess it is.

    I personally am against abortion. If I fathered a kid, and my (in this case soon-to-ex) mate wanted to abort, I would fight tooth and nail in the courts for the right to raise that child, even if she didn’t want it. It may be her body, but when she chose to have sex with me, she accepted the risk that she may become pregnant. Once that child is conceived, it ceases to simply be “her body.” The area where that kid is growing in her body has now half mine.

    Now that’s not to say I have the right to terminate the pregnancy if I don’t want the child, but on the flip side, neither should she.

    She’s pregnant. So what. It lasts a whopping nine months. Barely 1% of her entire life. If she doesn’t want the kid fine, but if I’m pledging to spend the next 24 years financially, physically, mentally, and emotionally supporting the child opposed to her 9 months of physical carriage, why shouldn’t I have the right to that choice?

    Oh right. I’m a man.

    My point being…abortions should be limited to cases of rape, danger to the woman, and consensual agreement to abort between the man and woman (unless man is aware of pregnancy and choosing not to be a part of it.)

    But if the woman doesn’t want it, and the man does…then the law should recognize the father’s right to be a father. Once again, you have consensual sex, be prepared to accept the risk.

    I’m a little disjointed in my writing, but I think I got my point out there…

  22. Here we fucking go.

    Anyone supporting the whole “my wallett my choice” is a selfish idiot….fine if you want to play that way don’t have sex

    Ah, another woman who believes the man’s wallet is her property, along with everything else he owns.

    rape should be punishable by death

    Yeah okay, and all of the false rape claims? Who cares eh? I mean, they’re only men anyway.

    Another thing is the sheer gall men have to presume to come up with laws affecting half the population when they themselves will NEVER have to deal with it is astouding

    I don’t know what you mean, but legalising abortion was done my feminist bitches with money from banksters.

    After all isn’t the whole pay difference based on the old belief that men are the providers for family while woman aren’t?

    No, it’s a lie, that women love to believe because they love playing the victim card. Women get paid less because they do less. I’m not even going to bother linking to it on my own blog, that’s how old that bullshit feminist myth is…

    I can’t even decide to abolish abortion simply because though I know I would never have one I can’t make that choice for someone else.

    Maybe, but the costs for abortions shouldn’t be dumped on taxpayers (overwhelmingly men) just because women can’t keep their fucking legs shut, or insist on contraception. Which they don’t because they know they can ‘just an abortion’. Fucking skanks.

    Here is a thought, decide whether or not people should be having sex, whether or not there should be A LOT of info on Birth control in schools or not and generally get rid of reasons for even having abortions in the first place

    Typical little princess attitude. And also stupid.
    This is why women always vote for bigger government and tyranny.

    They don’t want responsibilities, just entitlement. You don’t decide what other people should and shouldn’t do, you just don’t try to cover their asses and shield them from the consequences of their actions. That always turns people into little spoilt brats who then start thinking everything revolves around them and that they should be catered for, forever.

    The reason why women have abortions is because they don’t want a baby. But they’re having unprotected sex. (What the man wants doesn’t matter, he has no rights to children in this matriarchy).

    Now, if that woman knew that if she got pregnant there would be an extremely high probability that should have to actually have it (and hence, deal with the consequences of her actions) then she’d think twice about having unprotected sex, unless she wanted to get pregnant.

    Get it?

    Forcing people to deal with the consequences of their actions causes society to self-regulate.

    You don’t put your hand in a fire because it’ll get burnt. You don’t go around trying to rob banks because the police will come after and probably fuck you up. You don’t pick a fight with some crazy bastard because he’ll probably kill you.

    Likewise, a woman doesn’t go around getting in random men’s faces and hitting them, because eventually she’ll get a beating.

    The threat of having to deal with something generally forces peon’s like you to actually think carefully about the ramifications of their actions before they do them.

    This of course, would force women to act responsibly, and that could go against their entitlement attitude, so they support these schemes that give them more get-out clauses, regardless of the cost to others, or even themselves.

    you want men to be able to abort babies yet you cringe at the emergency pill…it’s all a form of control for men…if men can’t decide to do something then nobody should be able to do it

    What the fuck are you on about? And this was never about wanting men to abort babies, it was about highlighting the gross inequity in the law as it applies to the sexes. That is, women have all the rights, men have literally none.

    It’s this mentality which pisses me off because in the end people suffer for the beliefs of others because problems are not addressed and it’s all me, me and mu opinions that matter when it comes to serious issues.

    Do you know what projection is? You should look it up.

  23. Another thing is the sheer gall men have to presume to come up with laws affecting half the population when they themselves will NEVER have to deal with it is astouding…I can’t even decide to abolish abortion simply because though I know I would never have one I can’t make that choice for someone else. Here is a thought, decide whether or not people should be having sex, whether or not there should be A LOT of info on Birth control in schools or not and generally get rid of reasons for even having abortions in the first place…the problem with men and laws is that they contradict themselves…you want men to be able to abort babies yet you cringe at the emergency pill…it’s all a form of control for men…if men can’t decide to do something then nobody should be able to do it. It’s this mentality which pisses me off because in the end people suffer for the beliefs of others because problems are not addressed and it’s all me, me and mu opinions that matter when it comes to serious issues.

  24. Anyone supporting the whole “my wallett my choice” is a selfish idiot….fine if you want to play that way don’t have sex…sex should be illegal than and rape should be punishable by death…no sex, no baby, no financial responsibility…or how about having the government pay instead of a woman bearing the responsibility to pay for a child when she doesn’t make as much as men? After all isn’t the whole pay difference based on the old belief that men are the providers for family while woman aren’t? Address all those issues before you do the whole “stick it and then run” argument because it just looks cowardly.

  25. Pingback: 1,300 women have had at least FIVE abortions « End of Men

  26. I had a friend that aborted her baby at age 14 because her boyfriend, age 22, (yes, why was she allowed to date such an older guy?) got her pregnant and convinced her to end her baby’s life at 4 months gestation. He told her that he would leave and never speak to her again if she didn’t “get rid of the problem”. She could already feel her baby’s flutterings and movements within her womb when she drove to the abortion clinic with Mr. Faithful, who promised marriage after the abortion would be carried out. My dear friend aborted that little baby that trusted her to be the one to keep him or her safe and loved. Mr. Wonderful didn’t marry my friend. As a matter of fact, he left for California three weeks after my friend killed her baby, and he never wrote or called.

    My friend is now a 39-year old woman. She has tried to committ suicide no less than 10 times over what she calls the mistake of her lifetime, the murder of her little baby that was already gently giving her signs of life and love from within.

    What’s the answer on who’s choice it is? It should be the baby’s choice. But embryo’s and fetus’ are given no more value than a fried egg on your breakfast plate.

    Should the man have to help support his child? Yes, he knew the risk he assumed when he inserted part of his body into a woman’s body.

    Thankfully, my friend has now found Jesus and is trying to forgive herself for the abortion she had so many years ago. She says she’ll always feel empty and always feel guilty.

  27. You were clear the first time. But what I gather from those who are pro-choice, not even the scenario you presented would be good enough for them. It appears that the life and death decision over the fetus is the unspoken choice. I say this because I really don’t believe that it’s about pregnancy…but about raising a child you do not want. NOT saying I agree with it, it’s just how they appear to me.

  28. “Remember, she’s not just avoiding pregnancy, she’s avoiding motherhood.”

    Then I should have been clearer. If pregnancy termination clinics existed, and a woman could use them to end her pregnancy and never hear or know anything of the fetus’s future ever again, nor be liable in any way for its support – that liability being assumed by the fetus’s adoptive parents – would a pro-choice woman be content with that as sufficient control over her own body?

    Note that she wouldn’t be a mother in any meaningful sense, as she wouldn’t have carried the fetus to full-term. nor raised it, nor had any influence in its raising. She would be only a contributer of genetic material and a short-term host. Her position would be closer to that of a sperm donor than parent, and far superior to that of a reluctant father.

    Or does control over her own body require the life and death decision over the fetus?

  29. Would such an option be acceptable to most pro-choice women? Is the death of the fetus necessary to a woman’s sense of self-ownership, even when that death can be easily avoided?–Rob Case

    As reasonable as your hypothetical situation may sound, I personally don’t think that would be acceptable to the pro-choice community (at least not to most). I come to believe that the death of the fetus is necessary for most pro-choice women to feel in control. Remember, she’s not just avoiding pregnancy, she’s avoiding motherhood.

  30. A little mind exercise for the sake of clarity.

    Let’s suppose that medical technology advances to the point where a fetus can be safely removed from one womb and placed in another.

    Should any woman become pregnant and not wish to have the child, she could visit the nearest pregnancy termination clinic. She could walk in, end the pregnancy and walk out again.

    The difference is, the fetus would not be killed. It would be transferred immediately to a woman who wants to have her own child and has the means to support it.

    A woman would still be able to claim ownership of her own body and what use it is put to, but without that right trampling all over the right of the fetus to its own life.

    Would such an option be acceptable to most pro-choice women? Is the death of the fetus necessary to a woman’s sense of self-ownership, even when that death can be easily avoided?

  31. 1dumblonde,

    Thanks for the apology. This topic almost always gets heated. I believe that what this man did was beyond crazy. It is also my humble opinion that it is cruel for women to leave a man out of consideration to abort his and her child and then turn around and sue for child support. In that case, men are totally at the mercy of women and it simply isn’t fair. I believe that we will eventually see a precedent set where unmarried men will be given the right to be free of all legal obligations to child support for children they didn’t want (because of the rights women now possess). If we look around, some men are already claiming such. The real victims here will be children and that’s sad.

    Still, we should remember that abortion does not only benefit women. There are plenty of men out there who coax women into having them simply because they don’t want to be fathers.

    I also happen to have a brother and sisters who face the child support issue regularly. Child support payments should be fair to the fathers as well as mothers…there should be some type of accountability (for instance, the one receiving payments should be made to show how the money is spent–and it should not be to furnish her lifestyle). Lastly, not all fathers are made to pay large sums of money. Sometimes it can be as little as $100 per kid per month. That’s nothing.

  32. OK, I should not have insulted anybody and I apologize. I am not suggesting the government take care of children, unless they are in fact abandoned. I am saying it is the responsibility of two people. When my birthmother was pregnant, abortion was not a legal option and my father abandoned her faster than an alcohol can drink beer. But I was raised by a (non-biological) father and a mother who were both loving responsible people. I looked up to my dad because he cared about his family, and he had complete respect and love for my mother. So I am not anti-fathers here. I had the absolute best father I could have hoped for. He’s why I am a feminist.

    Feminist laws don’t fail to take into account reality. The reality is, it is easier for men to leave than women. Most men don’t leave, but many do. I’d bet most men love their kids. So I don’t get it when men start arguing that they should not have to pay child support when they father children. The children should not have to grow up in poverty. The money supports THE CHILD.

    Now, my brother is a divorced guy and he thinks of child support as his ex-wife getting his money, and partly, she’s responsible for that, because she’ll say things to him like, “I need to make my car payment.” But the kids need that car too. They don’t get to school by a magic beam. The money she spends for heat or air-conditioning, or food or gas, or painting the house, keeps the children comfortable, fed, educated and happy. If you don’t want government to pay, then fathers have to–if they don’t have custody. My sister shares custody of her children with her husband and she receives no child support because they are with him half the time. She gets ZERO money. So don’t tell me that I have no concept of reality. It seems like just women-bashing to me when someone posts an article about a man who tried to poison his partner so she’d abort a baby and headlines it as if this was a legal exercise of his right to choose.

  33. 1dumblonde

    You lost all credibility once you insulted us here like a typical feminist.

    You actually did more harm to your cause.

    As FMW points out, reality and how things are supposed to work are two completely different things.

    Sports wouldn’t exist for one if things were predictable. There wouldn’t be a stock market. Communism would be the best form of government, and wars would not exist.

    However, due to human impercfection, arrogance, selfishness, greed, lust etc., NOTHING works the way it is supposed to on paper.

    Therefore you have to make laws that work realistically in the real world.

    Feminist laws fail to take into consideration that they make up half the population and that a future exists beyond today and immediate gratification.

    This is the biggest problem with feminism and is also how our current governments do business.

    Why worry about today’s debt? Let’s put it on tomorrow’s children, they;ll figure it out.

    This logic only leads to societal collapse.

  34. Simply, you a fucking moron. He could have hurt or killed her too. If she wanted him to get a vasectomy and he refused, would it be right if she chopped off his balls? No. Although after reading your rot I may have to reconsider

  35. Legally a woman may opt for a medically performed procedure called an abortion to terminate the pregnancy.

    But a man has no legal choice in the matter. As in, NO choice whether she aborts or not.

    If the putative father gets custody of the child or shares custody of the child, the mother will pay child support.

    In the rare case the father does get custody, the mother defaults at twice the rate of fathers, even when they only have to pay half as much.

    Children must be supported!

    By the parents, not the state. The obligations and responsibilities attached to children in these socialist/ communist states are now picked up by the taxpayer (i.e, everyone else, mostly men). This can open a can of worms, wherein women deliberately have children to ensure themselves an income, lie about paternity to ensure higher support payments, etc.

    Her body, her fetus; their baby, their responsibility.

    Interesting. You are saying it is her’s until it leaves her body, then they both have to pay (which in reality means the man has to pay).

    And if he wants a child and she doesn’t she can abort, without him even knowing, and he needs to just ‘deal with it’. Or she can fuck some other guy behind his back, pretend it’s his (even if he doesn’t want it) and the man is then forced into the responsibilities and obligations.

    All on her whim. That’s a bit risk for a man to take in this day an age.

    Get over your hatred of mom and be a grown up.

    There is no hatred here. Just objective dissection of a fucked up, anti-male system. You are getting your simplified textbook world where nobody behaves selfishly or abuses the system confused with reality.

    The system caters completely to women’s needs/ wants/ words. Men only have the (enforced) ‘right’ to pay the price. That’s a fact.

  36. I want to point out one thing here before I explain my position on the woman’s body, woman’s choice question. I am a feminist, but I don’t hate guys. OK? I love my brother, a divorced with man with 2 kids who pays child support–as he should.

    Heterosexual, penis to vagina intercourse creates children. Not always, not every time, but sometimes, even when you take precautions. That’s a risk. If a pregnancy results, that pregnancy is in a woman’s body. A man cannot get inside that body and rip that fetus out, beat it to death, poison it. Legally a woman may opt for a medically performed procedure called an abortion to terminate the pregnancy.

    If she decides not to terminate the pregnancy, as the commentators here think she ought not to do because they are anti-abortion or pro-life, then the financial responsibility for raising the child become incumbant on BOTH parents. If the putative father gets custody of the child or shares custody of the child, the mother will pay child support. Children must be supported! It costs MONEY which the child cannot legally earn for himself or herself, especially not at the age of, say, a day and half.

    Don’t be schmucks.

    Her body, her fetus; their baby, their responsibility. At common law, birth is recognized as the legal time of independent personhood, because to do otherwise is to make it impossible to regulate. The law cannot always do the best, most humane, most ethical thing. It doesn’t mean it has to do the basest thing either. Law is about making reasonable principles to govern society in a non-arbitrary and fair way. If you’re a father and you are paying child support, you ought to be able to see the child unless you are some kind of danger to the kid. So be a part of the kid’s life. Get over your hatred of mom and be a grown up.

  37. LorMarie: A man has no choice if the baby is in the woman’s body. The embryo’s were frozen. In fact, that is probably the only reason he could have a say.

    That just reinforces my point. If a woman gets pregnant, a man has no choices what she does with the child in her body.

    Her body, her baby, his responsibility seems to be the mantra these days.

  38. Now here’s another way to look at it.

    Technically speaking, the argument my body my choice doesn’t really hold genetic water.

    You see, the fetus is only 50% maternal, 50% paternal. In fact it is a unique individual that should be given the same constitutional right to life as any other person. So the logic in that argument is false.

    You could say that the baby requires the mother to live. However, the mother requires the father or some other man (the state) to live as well. Does that mean the father also has the right to terminate the wife whenever she becomes inconvenient?

    You could argue against me and say the father isn’t required for the life, but in many cases, he is since most tax money comes from men. You could argue and say that the wife and children could go to any man and have them raise it.

    Fine, well the embryo can be implanted in almost any uterus and still live. So where is the argument for only giving the woman a choice?

    Technically abortion is murder. You are killing DNA that is unique and is not solely your own. No PC pro-choice bullshit. I am not against choice, I am FOR life. Pro-abortion people are anti-life. Simple as that.

  39. Abortion shouldn’t be legal period. However if feminists want to say my body my choice, then men should be able to say my wallet, my choice.

    This is only fair, after all, the wallet isn’t the woman’s now is it? So why should anything she does be able to determine how that money is spent?

    You can’t have it both ways ladies.

    Abortion is THE reason why the social security system is about to collapse and why illegal alien labor is required in the US.

    60 million documented babies have been aborted since 1973 in the US alone. With 30 million of those being of working age, this larger pool of tax payers (about 1/10 the current US pop) would easily eliminate the social security deficit and also eliminate the need for migrant and immigrant workers (many of which dont pay taxes).

    See the problem is that feminists and their women supporters can’t see beyond today.

    Now you have many countries actually considering paying couples to have children, putting an even larger burden on tax payers.

    Why not just kill 3 birds with one stone and eliminate abortion?

    Abortions for convenience should be outlawed. For the small less than 1% that actually threaten the life of the mother or less than 0.01% that happen through incest, I think we can allow those.

    Then I think the other DNA contributor should pay. However, paternity tests should be mandatory at birth. It is good practice to do so anyways in case the baby needs a bone marrow transplant or blood transfusion or other procedure requiring anything from the father.

    It takes two to tango, both should bear the choice and financial responsibility of the birth. If you only let one choose, then that person has to waive their right to the father’s money.

    What is fair is fair, and after all feminism is about equality, isn’t it ladies?

  40. Hi 1dumblonde,

    Perhaps a man should respect that. But there is a principle that should come into play. If it’s a woman’s right and her body, then it should be her financial responsibility alone. There was no argument here in favor of a man poisoning a woman. After all, how are abortions induced? My point is, you can’t have it both ways. If a woman leaves a man out of that decision, she should not have the right to seek child support…it’s only fair.

    EndOfMen,

    Is it really the case that men have no choice? Wasn’t there a conflict in England recently where a woman who lost the right to use embryos fertilized by a former boyfriend because he didn’t want children with her (they had broken up)? She was also a cancer patient and would have no other way to become a biological mother.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2007/apr/11/health.medicineandhealth1

    Honestly, I hoped that this man would have a change of heart. But, he should be afforded the right to become a father when he wants just as women have the right to choose when to become mothers. So in some cases, men do have choices. There are also plenty of men who coax women into having abortions

  41. You’re kidding, right? The point of the law guaranteeing the right to choose is that a woman’s body is HERS. Her husband doesn’t get to poison her body surreptiously, whether she is pregnant or not. And in fact, poisoning with the intent to cause miscarriage is different than taking a legally prescribed (to the user), safe drug. It is not HIS BODY. If he wants to abort his child, he can do so when he is carrying it and it is part of his body. When it’s part of her body, he has to respect that.

    Ideally couples who are having a child will talk to one another, but a disagreement about abortion doesn’t mean he automatically gets to win by poisoning her!

    • hello,

      I’m about to have a baby that i did not want. It’s by a woman who i would not have a baby by if I had the choice to abort or not. At any rate. It’s nothing I can do at this point because she wants the baby and I do not have a say at this point. I will support the child financially but if I had to do it again I’d 100% abort. ANyways, my point is this. Just make the law fair. Today the law protects the rights of women, and not of men. Either make it illegal and about the childs life and take it out of the parents hands, or give the choice equally to the parents. I know 100 years from now we will look back and realize how dumb the law is today. I

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